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« on: December 05, 2008, 09:51:33 PM »

American cultural influences on the roots of manga post-WWII.

Discuss.

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Re: Question

« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2008, 11:06:18 PM »

There is no question, you lied to us :(

I like big bOObs and I can not lie!

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Re: Question

« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2008, 11:10:06 AM »

Very true. But Bang Doll lies all the time, so that's nothing new. Perhaps the statement should be rephrased as (if Bang Doll will give me the liberty to do so):

What impact does American culture have on the roots of manga and anime in the post-WWII era?

This sounds like something you would explore in a Art History class. I'm sure there have been books and articles written on the topic.

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Re: Question

« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2008, 02:53:28 PM »

It's rumoured by person that Osama Bintezuka was inspired by Walt Disney.

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Re: Question

« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2008, 11:46:41 PM »

I'm pretty sure that the Japanese school-girl uniform theme was partially influenced by the U.S. Navy's uniforms at the time. Sakura's (from the Street Fighter series) outfit, and the whole school theme that's apparent in anime series such as Azumanga Daioh, Kagome from Inuyasha, etc. come to mind.

I think popularizing the sport of baseball in Japan around that time also had a profound influence. I recall a few baseball scenes from FLCL and Haruhi... also, characters such as Ness from the Earthbound/Mother series, Faust's dust attack from the Guilty Gear series, and Lil' Slugger from Paranoia Agent use baseball bats as weapons.

Just my 2 cents there. =P

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Re: Question

« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2008, 03:31:59 AM »

Quote from: bfg00 on December 06, 2008, 11:10:06 AM

What impact does American culture have on the roots of manga and anime in the post-WWII era?

~~THE CAKE~~ YOUR FACE IS FILLED WITH LIES

There is obviously a question there you just have to look for it instead of being spoonfed all your intellectually-stimulating, thought-provoking quanderies. U_____U

Anyways, the thought first occurred to me when I read somewhere that Empowered is considered an "OEL Manga" after I read like the first 1/3 of the volume and started looking online for more info about the series...

And then I learned that the term "OEL Manga" is actually a term used by the Japanese Ministry of Foreign Affairs, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_English-language_manga

This statement and the proceeding discovery of the official term from the JMFA, filled me with BOUNDLESS RAGE

But then my heart calmed and I realized I wasn't exactly an expert on the roots of anime so I might as well go someplace and have a lively discussion about it. So I masked the opening post of the discussion with a clandestine, inconspicuous little title, "Question". My skills of misleading and covert ops have surprised you! En guarde!!

Anyways, my traditional understanding of the roots of J-animation and manga is that a lot of it was inspired by the american occupation post-WWII and a lot of comic books and animations brought over by the occupying military forces, and particularly Disney animations. Well in some other articles linked to from those wiki articles I apparently discovered (as opposed to discovering for certain, my discovery as you see, was unknown even to me) that there was a growing movement in Japanese scholars to discoutn this notion and introduce the idea that modern manga was a "rejection" of American animation forced on occupied nihon. This therefore obviously explains why other cultural influences, like american baseball and sailor uniforms, as tetsaru mentions, were also keenly rejected by the Japanese mainstream. The preceding statement is true.

This growing movement even went on to say that there were examples of "early manga" in fucking cave walls in like 8th century Japan or some such. Because as we all know, Walt Disney was truly inspired by ancient native american illustrations painted in animal hides with dyes composed of cornmeal and poo.

I dunno.. I mean I dont' wanna sound like a jingoist prick 'n all... but it just irks me. Like every fucking time nowadays some american illustrator puts a few "manga"-style expressions on his characters he suddenly becomes "inspired by manga" to the exclusion of all other inspirations or influences. Like omg he made a character with big 'ol wide eyes that make her look so cute and "anime" style eyes yeah! WTF is this Walt Disney went back in time and made characters with big expressive eyes what a manga ripoff he was.

Sigh... woe is me... I'm just... a prejudiced americanna I guess. Oh well, that leaves just Don Hertzfeldt and TEAM VENTURE to lead the next generation of truly American animations into the future.

Although I'm sure we'll hear about some discovery in some ancient cave near Kyoto containing pictures of stick figures in nonsensical and unexpected short scenes.

But nobody will touch Venture baby. 'Cuz if they do, Brock will bend them over and ram their own hands up betwixt their buttcheeks. I saw that on a website once.

oh shit wot

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Re: Question

« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2008, 12:21:54 PM »

Early manga WAS inspired by western cartoons and comics, and if some Japanese people are trying to deny it now then it really doesn't surprise me because I've heard from Chinese people that they treat their military history the same way, that is, changing facts to look better.

But what do I know! This is all based on what I've heard from word of mouth(and some internet articles), and you know how reliable that is.

But what I think is particularly interesting is that if America's being heavily inspired by Japanese art styles now I get the feeling that it's similar to Japan's own manga revolution back then. Who knows? Maybe 40 years from now America will be the leader in anime style artwork, or even go on to make something better. It's not impossible, as improbable as it sounds. Could you look at 1950s manga back then and guess that'd it grow up into the awesome stuff we have now?

I mean, in the US there's people spending 10s of thousands of dollars to go to art school just to learn how to draw anime style(and later being gut kicked in the soul after their teachers tell them they shouldn't. See: Ask ROMate about Savannah College of Art and Design.) Maybe those kids are amateurs now, but as they get older they're only going to improve. You can't really expect them to be able to compete with Satoshi Urushihara or Masamune Shirou. It's too early for that. But maybe when they're much older we'll start seeing something comparable from the truly dedicated.

On a side note, did you guys hear that Japan's trying to do away with Sailor school uniforms altogether?

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Re: Question

« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2008, 12:29:29 PM »

Also,

Much praise for the Venture Brothers. It's like the only show I watch right now next to Robot Chicken.

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Re: Question

« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2008, 04:37:54 PM »

Another example of western inspiration is the background music used in many anime which tends to be orchestral with classical themes. Also most of the people in anime and manga look caucasian not asian. Not to say that the Japanese have not put their own twist on it or their own improvements. They have certainly done that, and conversely inspire change in the way that western cartoons are done. It's just that there are rather clear examples of western influence. In fact you might say that anime and manga are a successful fusion of both western and eastern influences.

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